Beyond Child Support: Navigating Fatherhood in Today's Society

Terry Allen Nichols and Chief Ali explore the challenges and realities of fatherhood in today's society, addressing how fathers are systematically pushed out of their children's lives despite their crucial importance.

• Examining how 18 isn't truly "grown" and the extra responsibilities placed on young fathers
• Discussing how government assistance programs can inadvertently replace fathers and limit family growth
• Sharing Terry's 17-year custody battle that ended with him gaining full custody of his children
• Exploring how society often blames absent fathers while creating barriers to their involvement
• Highlighting the mental health challenges fathers face when separated from their children
• Comparing the complementary parenting approaches of mothers and fathers
• Identifying resources like the Fatherhood Initiative and Passages Program for struggling fathers
• Discussing the importance of fathers in shaping children's perspectives and development

If you're a father struggling with custody issues or need guidance navigating the system, reach out through Facebook to Terry Allen Nichols, who is willing to share resources and advice from his own experience.

P2SF Podcast Official Intro By Lay Loe Tha Mos Produced By Chief Ali

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All music, production, and vocals edited by Chief Ali,
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Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Father's Day Conversation
• 12:49 The Reality of Growing Up vs Being Grown
• 24:48 Government Assistance vs Father Involvement
• 44:24 Meeting Terry Allen Nichols (Tan Man)
• 55:55 Fighting the System as a Father
• 1:10:10 Fatherhood Resources and Getting Custody
• 1:17:55 Raising Sons vs Daughters
• 1:28:13 Finding Connection and Building Safe Spaces

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:34

So, man, tell me this especially, man, you came through, we, you know Father's Day coming up. We already, we already been in this father, fatherhood shit for years. Bro, for sure, stepdaddy, real daddy, you know what I'm saying. But just so, just tell me now, man, how old is your oldest?

Speaker 2: 1:56

Now I'm 17. Getting ready to be 18 October, so in four months he'd be grown. So I've been dealing with this fatherhood stuff for 18 years.

Speaker 1: 2:08

Do you think 18 grown though? No, no man. Hey, we was just talking about that. Going depth, though, bro. How was 18 not grown? So when?

Speaker 2: 2:19

we was just talking about that. Go in depth though, bro. How was 18 not grown so when we was here? Kj, or whatever? About just the demographic of how they even entrap people to think that way At 18, you really can't do much of anything. You can sign up to fight for the country, Mm-hmm, Go to jail, yeah, yeah. You damn sure go to jail.

Speaker 2: 2:39

You go to jail country. Go to jail, yeah, yeah, you damn sure go to jail. You go to jail and pretty much you know open up a bank account on your own, but you can't walk into a store and buy you know a bottle or you know shoot your shells miles without being carded. It's, it's something that they the stigma that the country puts on us, but it's easy to get in debt at 18. If you don't have the right people to teach you how to manage yourself. You know what I'm saying, in fact, yeah, so, um, no, I do not think 18 has grown, but hey and I.

Speaker 1: 3:22

But hey and I like how you brought up almost like the pleasure side of being 18 of you get to probably go to certain nightclubs. You get to kind of, like you said, go maybe get some drink or some smoke or just you know, kind of be out in the world. You don't got a curfew.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Quote-unquote exactly, you're a little bit more independent yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

Speaker 1: 3:34

So the angle we was talking to him about was graduating from school. One of my nephews is at the age where he getting ready to graduate from school, he getting ready to go out into the world, and I actually believe he's a year ahead in school, so he actually is 17 getting ready to graduate, compared to 18.

Speaker 2: 3:54

Right, so he not going to be able to do.

Speaker 1: 3:57

He going to be able to take off into the world like he like. At the same time, the way I looked at it was um, like most of us, we was living on our own in our generation. Most of us jumped out there 18, 19, 20, got our own place car, stuff, like that. I don't think a lot of these children, these this generation, got that same grit Like we did we. We, we wanted to drive and get our license at 15, 16 years old. We wanted to be responsible, like that. But getting to see the children now trying to go out there and do it Like we did it, I don't think they, I don't think most of them, got it, nor are they ready. Getting to see, like how they got to be 38 this year and I'm just catching on to like responsibility. You know what I'm saying. So 18, 20, 20 years ago, bro, no.

Speaker 2: 4:46

And I think it's kind of so. I talk to Dom about this regularly. This generation is a gift and a curse for when it comes to like technology and stuff. Curse, uh, for when it comes to like technology and stuff, because they have things that are more accessible to them at their fingertips, which helps them learn faster, but it also has made them stagnant and extremely lazy because, I agree, able to get it at their fingertips so quickly. Like you know, I just was trying to put him in a driver's ed or whatever, and he was kind of like eh, it's cool if I get my license and it's cool if I don't, and I'm like man what.

Speaker 2: 5:27

Like how you going to get around? And he just was like well, you know, I got you, I got mom, I can Uber, I'm like I would never. I need you to have the same ambition and drive because at 18 you are able to you said taste those freedoms, but you still have to have the desire of wanting to chase it yeah, you gotta be responsible enough to to handle what you ask for.

Speaker 1: 5:57

You wanna drive? Great man, you can come and go as you please. A little bit you can get to where you need to go faster. But if you texting and driving, if you don't got the the small necessities of like how to maintain your vehicle insurance, insurance you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 6:15

Gas, gas, money, you gotta you gotta have the, the, the means to it. People, even of our age, think it could be just as simple as just getting in the car. But it ain't just that. People think, oh okay, I put 20, 30 dollars in the tank, yeah, but what about that oil change? What about the brakes? What about the, the maintenance of the, the tire rotation everything, yeah like a $50 a week. Experience can go to thousands of dollars real quick, real quick.

Speaker 1: 6:47

So that understanding the financials that you have to have really to be inside of the world to conduct yourself as smooth as you would want to inside of the world, it doesn't come with, nobody just hands you money. Nah, so kj is 13, just turned 13.

Speaker 2: 7:06

He at this funky teenage boy age where I think I know it all yeah, yeah yeah, you know, feeling himself, as we call it in our generation and older generations, the nuts is dropping.

Speaker 1: 7:21

Nuts is dropping. Yeah, so to a level I respect it, because he want to find his own and I'm okay with that. But what I don't like and I try to express to him is man, don't kick your guy. Don't kick your guy, bro, I'm your guy. As I tell him, I've been a 13-year boy named ken one before. Nobody know it. Hey, this is this is our first time here together all right, are you learning and I'm learning yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:47

So I'm like hey, bro, like forgive me, because we learning together, we learning at the same time. It's my first time here with you. I've been here before though. Yeah, so he he catching it. But it's like a fart in the wind is. When I'm talking to him he's like yeah, dad, sure great. Then afterwards he embarrassed his mama show up to an event. That he wanted, is that? But now he like oh, my god, my parents are around though his friends like man, your mama lit, your daddy lit but for sure, but that you know, like you don't really appreciate it until it's gone.

Speaker 2: 8:25

You know what I'm saying and then when it is you as the beneficiary, you don't necessarily see it because you're used to it. So when you got somebody who doesn't have having that conversation, you're like what do you know? You know, I'm saying right, and yeah, I done been in them shoes, but I yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

Speaker 1: 8:49

So I. So I say that to say, um, he doesn't know what it's like not to have a father at any point. Okay, I ain't missed no days and I put in that overtime.

Speaker 2: 9:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:02

So it's a, it's a like you said it's. It's so ready, accessible, is to him. It's just like I get to it Unappreciated. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 9:11

Yeah, whenever no-transcript, and that's kind of like what I mean about a good segue in terms of you know, this is not something that I just do in my free time. Just do in my free time, like I study being a better man, which alludes to being a better father, you know, because you can never just take one side of it. So I'll speak to women about what they ask of us, what they require of us to be better fathers. I'll speak to men and say, well, what do you need for that to happen? And like, I think the disconnect is honestly just, uh, perspective and understanding. You know I'm saying, but with dominant growing up, I feel like you, I won't get in trouble for saying it. I think that if I was in the home, I know he would be a lot further on in life. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 10:29

So when I look online and I see women, dare I say, shaming men, I don't think that they understand that it comes with emotional baggage for us as well, because I want to be with my kid every day but I shouldn't have to necessarily deal and I'm not saying all women or men's, you know, circumstances are the same but the majority of the time when it becomes toxic. Women just think that it's toxic for them. Like no, like I'm missing my baby, like I gotta miss events. You know I'm saying that could be something as simple as the first step. Or you know after school activity. Or you know his first girlfriend? It could be the birds and the bees. Talk, yeah, and a lot of people say, well, it doesn't have to be that way. But when you got conflict in between nine times out of ten, that's how it ends up. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Like and I think, um, women don't believe that men feel what they feel, grieve, yeah, like they, and think and I say it respectfully, even being married, you know what I'm saying that I tell Vanessa, like man don't ever feel like I'm okay.

Speaker 2: 11:44

Right.

Speaker 1: 11:44

Or don't ever feel like that. What happened to our children and birth and things like that? Like I didn't feel it, you know what I'm saying, that just means I react the way.

Speaker 1: 11:54

And it's expressing to her the postpartum that men go through, like the emotional of, hey, I can't see my baby either. That bothers me, that I don't like it, man, and it's for real, it's serious. So, being able to express that and be like, hey, man, I don't want to have to act a fool to show that I care, right, you know, that's just not, that's beneath me as a gentleman of who I've grown to be. But I am very emotional, I'm very rigid on not seeing my keys because that's that's a day-to-day for me. That's a day-to-day for me. So not being able to see him or touch him, I can only imagine the men that I and can only imagine the men that I and that and there's great men like you, like levon, like bud, that are around me that sometimes they don't get that privilege to see their children, because sometimes people mad, right, sometimes people it's a benefit to keep you away more than a privilege of like you can have all of me and everything of me if I was, if I could be here. But because in a lot of cases the government get to step in and be the father, the government get to tell you where you live, how much money you get to make. Give you X, y and Z section A food stamps.

Speaker 1: 13:06

Medical it's a replacement, it's a replacement, yeah so. And it's not a healthy one? No, not at all Not a healthy one, and that alienates the dad. So where do we go to get the love, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 13:19

You know, and it's just systematic programming, because I say, maybe about six, seven years ago it was before the twins were born kind of had that uh exact discussion on, uh, my facebook page on the post, where it just asked women a very direct question would you rather have the support of a father trying or the government that can do? You know, like him being out of the home, don't stop your show if they telling you, well, as long as he's gone, we'll give you this, we'll give you this, we'll give you this. Sometimes a man just can't compete with what's guaranteed. You know, I'm saying like when you give in the insurance, when you give in a place to lay your head, when you give in, whatever the monetary amount may be, it's money that is coming in your pocket one way or another. You know people might say, oh, he isn't consistently paying child support for some circumstances. But we know that's not how it works. They're going to catch your ass at some point.

Speaker 1: 14:50

At some point.

Speaker 2: 14:51

Yeah, you know, know I'm saying so. Um, a lot of the women who answered on that specific post answered honestly and said that they'd rather take the government assistance. You know I'm saying because you have a man in the home that's trying which the focus should be on the child. It doesn't benefit her. You know, I'm saying and like, I just think that the system needs to be revamped, instead of it being, like you said, a replacement, but something that can be there to assist.

Speaker 1: 15:26

You know so yeah, hey, and I think that is it's sad. You know some women will prefer that, that government assistance over maybe even a job themselves or a man that's actually working trying, compared to the consistency that they can receive for the government. But it's, it's always capped. It's always capped only so much every month Only. So it is so that you know so it's never. It's never you really get ahead. It's really like, hey, keeping you there, keeping you there, is one step from you being on the street. So a six hundred dollars, eight hundred dollars, two hundred dollars, whatever you get in per month to be able to just kind of get you by.

Speaker 1: 16:13

It shouldn't be, and I guess, like you you said it's a systematic thing. You getting paid x amount of dollars to almost do nothing should not replace a man who comes in with with everything that can help you reach the ceilings that y'all can work together. But then you upset. When we get upset as men, I'll say is don't look at me for money, don't look at me like this, but is we actually are being replaced by it? On this fact of the government, right, can you come in and pay my bills? Can you come in and pay my rent? It's like you not even doing that lady like, let's like, let's not do that. And I'm an advocate for government assistance man I'm an advocate for because I know some people need it, but it shouldn't be. Your grandmama got it, your mama got it, your sister got it and your baby got it, teaching your baby to be dependent on it instead of getting out here.

Speaker 1: 17:03

Yeah, yeah and it's everybody loses, everybody loses. The baby doesn't get further along. Some of the things I'll say is the baby is taken care of in the most simplistic way, where it doesn't die. It got some health insurance, it got some, yeah, it got it got just enough to get by. But the government still look like it has to recoup itself and it's going to find the father. It's going to find it some way. You're going that letter, going to show up to a job, you're going to get one in the mail too, and it's going to be like some garnishments coming out effective.

Speaker 2: 17:37

X, y, z yeah, and you know, when I say grade d is not to diminish the help, you know I'm not saying that. But when you peel the layer of that onion back and you look at what it is that they are providing, it really is because we saw it firsthand. You know, my favorite subject is history, you know. So I remember paying attention to uh, before I lived in the suburbs was called the Great White Flight, which in other generations would be called gentrification. So we saw firsthand, growing up, where we grew up, section eight coming in, you know, and they associated in that community. Oh well, that means, you know, more trouble. You know they associated it with the school district, I guess you could say falling off. You could see the funds drastically changing, you know, and I'll say that in that suburban community it also meant we would see less whites or asians or indians and you would see more brown colored people.

Speaker 2: 19:03

You know I'm saying but when you look out of kaha county you see other larger systems, you know, like out in the sticks they getting the same benefit. It just ain't us out there. Yeah, you know I'm saying so, um, tying that into fatherhood. It can be associated with the come up, but they're not realizing what comes with the, like you said, the cap. You know I'm saying they're giving you just enough to survive. When, if we're working together, or for those that do got to do it on their own, are you taking full advantage of your support system to get it out the mud? Or are you just saying, hey, I'm just dependent on this system. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:49

And I think, I think it's the easy way. Ok, as a man who grew up on it, man, and we had it for a little bit too I love food stamps. Okay, government, if you hear me, I love stamps. I love food stamps. Okay, two for the dollar. Two for the dollar, I love food stamps.

Speaker 2: 20:11

It fed us well.

Speaker 1: 20:13

If you can't get free medical, you should get free food. Man, so much food go to waste and shit. If you can't get free medical, you should be able to get free food. Yeah, we all need help every now and then, for sure. So I don't know, we're near knock help, especially as an entrepreneur man. We need all of it. Everybody need the help. Everybody need, need somebody put it like that man. So welcome to a beautiful episode of permission to speak freely podcast. I got my mans, I got my brother, terry allen nichols, and if you, really know him.

Speaker 1: 20:47

You know him as tan man. Okay, man, we here today just talking, like we usually talk, unedited, unscripted, but bringing y'all fully into our conversations that we have on the daily of just what it is to be a man, what it is to be a father, especially during the month of men's mental health month, men's mental health awareness month. We we here to bring y'all that man. So Tam man, tell the people about you.

Speaker 2: 21:18

Alright. Well, first off, happy Father's Day to you and everybody out there All the fathers out there A little bit about myself Getting ready to be 39 years old In October, father of three Beautiful, beautiful children Got Dom, dion and Drew and you know pretty much. What I wanted to come on the podcast today and talk about is, like Ken Y said, just give a little history about myself, just the struggles of dealing with wanting to be the best father you could be in today's society. You know it's a lot of stigma that comes with it, a lot of finger pointing, a lot of lack of understanding. And you know I hear all the time and you know I hear all the time Well, a lot years ago that there's always a way to do more.

Speaker 2: 22:20

But when you are in that box, sometimes, like you said, tying it into mental health, you get beat up. You know sometimes, you know when you think you're doing enough and it isn't enough, it can become frustrating, you know. So I just wanted to come on today and, uh, give some fathers and men that are trying to be better some encouraging words, uh, some hindsight of some things that I've been dealing with for the past 17 years. Um, this is not something new to me, because I know what I signed up for to be a father, um, you know. So, yeah, uh, just to shout some people out and show love to those who deserve it. You know, because don't get me wrong there are some moms who go beyond the call of duty to be great co-parents, you know, and there are some programs that are in place to help fathers be great fathers, and if you don't know about them, you won't know about them. So, yeah, that's just pretty much what I wanted to do today, man, and yeah, that's.

Speaker 1: 23:30

That's that's where we at with things hey, man, freedom speakers especially I'm talking to the men have you ever found yourself in that situation where you trying to hit the mark and keep missing the person, keep moving the target on you, the boundary, yeah, and you, like you said, you find yourself just almost defeated man, you find yourself exhausted. You find yourself what I like to say, and I break it down in the most elementary way I'm sad, bitch, I'm sad, I'm fucking sad. You're hurting my feelings. My feelings are hurt, you know and I don't want to lash out because most men that's kind of how we handle things is through anger at times, just, and I feel like it's learning myself.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Man, my anger was very much confusion. My anger was confusion of I thought I was going the right direction, but I was going the wrong way. And I was led the wrong way because it's beneficial for me to be lost to this person that I'm trying to help, compared to we actually working together right. So once I, once I catch on, it's scary, it's dangerous, because it's like all of this was just a facade, all of this was fake, all of it wasn't real, and I'm supposed to accept an apology or I'm supposed to just bear. No man, I'm mentally frazzled. You know what I'm saying. I'm emotionally hurt and it's just not a healthy place. So I've been there and knowing, when I was a young, immature, as young man at the time, knowing I didn't know how to handle my emotions like I do as a, as a 38 year old, mature adult who loves himself now, right, gotta be more.

Speaker 2: 25:21

I just told, I just told a kid well, a young man yesterday at work that I was training. You know that sometimes learning and bettering yourself can affect everything else, instead of you focusing on trying to do it, just doing it. You know what I'm saying. So, yeah, I agree with that completely. Like it's made me a better father, a better friend. You know, single or not, I know that I'm in a position to be a better partner. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 25:54

I did a lot of good to the mother of my children, but I also know that I did a lot of wrong and, like you said, it wasn't because I was a bad dad, it was because I just didn't know any better. You know that's something that they shouldn't be associated. You know what I'm saying. Like a person can be a good father or great one more time man, like repeat that. So basically, like you know, the connection is that let's just say, like you know, in my past you know dom's mom and I we oil and water. You know I'm saying I don't fault her for that, because it's the truth oil and water. But one thing that I know she knows is that I'm a great dad, but in our younger years the only thing that she could do to get to me would be use my son. You know, I'm saying and I used to have to tell her, like, as triggering as it was, that would get me closer to spazzing out than us not necessarily working. I ain't give a fuck about that like I'm just being honest.

Speaker 2: 27:04

It was I care about my son, you know what I'm saying. So even though we were not compatible, she had my word to be the best dad that I could be. You know what I'm saying. And I don't think that they should be associated that just because you and this woman, or vice versa, didn't work out that it means that you know who they are. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 27:28

You got to give them a chance, you know so do you feel like that as being a dad now, in the work that you are doing to better yourself, to better your situation and to better your children? Do you think it's being recognized like by the mother of your children? Do you think like it's being recognized and?

Speaker 2: 27:46

seen, nah, and that's what's wrong with it. You know I'm saying like I don't feel like it's appreciated until you have to. You know what I'm saying. So something else that I wanted to talk about is, like I just said, you know, I've been in the juvenile court battle for 17 years and so, with Dom getting ready to be 18, I got tired.

Speaker 2: 28:13

The system did what it was supposed to do. It defeated me. You know what I'm saying. I fought, fought, fought, fought, fought. I worked, worked, worked, worked, worked. I adjusted the schedule. You know I did everything that I was supposed to do to make sure that I was present, going to his mom and saying, saying man, just let me be your dad, I want him, I want him, I want him, I want him. She didn't care anything about that because she had all the benefits that came with it.

Speaker 2: 28:42

So who lost out on a lot of opportunities was me in the long run, because it stunted my advancement. Uh, it affected my friendships, because I felt like at 21, 22, 23, 24, I was one of our first friends to have kids. You know I'm saying I felt like man, you niggas don't understand me and what I'm going through. You know I'm saying like y'all see me going up to work every day, but look at this check. You know I'm saying like it don't align. You know I'm saying or not being able to hang out with them like I used to, or feeling like when I did have dom, um, not being able to do the normal hangout, whether it be going to bars or clubs. I was more centered on family events, so I missed out on a lot, even in my early 20s. You know um, it affected my relationships. I'm sure she will never, ever, ever expect this.

Speaker 2: 29:45

But you know, the woman that I was with, she was a great woman. You know I'm gonna shout her out nicole rivera. Shout out nicole. Great woman. I feel like because I was broken, I wasn't who I should have been to her and it wasn't always her fault. You know I'm saying it was the system doing it. You know I'm saying and people was gonna say, oh, you making excuses, you saying that until you in that courtroom and they telling you they don't care. Yeah, yeah, they taking your money just to be like ah well, kids will be kids. He needs to be with his mom. Why isn't it that same kid needs to be with his dad?

Speaker 2: 30:27

yeah, it should be the same urgency you know I'm saying, especially when we talking about our juvenile system being flooded with young black boys. Yeah, why, why wouldn't you want them to be with their fathers to learn?

Speaker 1: 30:42

you know I'm saying how to you know, I said this to kj recently, just getting on him about certain things and making sure I'm protecting him, giving him information. I had told him, like, man, you know, when they see you sometimes as a young black boy, or when they see black men, two things normally pop into people's mind. I mean, either whatever you were doing is looked at as cool or whatever you're doing is looked at as dangerous because you're black, right, all right, and I'm like, and if you get yourself into some shenanigans, the first thing they gonna ask is where your daddy at, for sure, where your daddy. You got a daddy and you acting like this. It's our fault when we in the home and when we not in the home, not in the home, you can't win. And you wonder why some, some people do what it is they want to do. Man, I choose, like as a father man, I choose to show up every day. I choose the clock in for every day.

Speaker 1: 31:34

I'm thankful that I was able to, vanessa and I were able to get to a place where we, we, we, we're, we're, we're good and progressing outside, because it went. It ain't always been peaches and cream, especially when it comes to those children. When I got a chance to permission to speak freely when we got together young and hit the ground running on a lot of things early. So when we had a child, we really, we really didn't. I didn't feel like we really gave him some of the attention that he should have really had, because we were focusing on the growth, like we were focusing on the responsibilities, the growth, like we were focusing on the responsibilities that we took on we started a business right we trying to be in a relationship with each other.

Speaker 1: 32:20

We do got him, but he, you know, an infant but we still not doing all the things that we should have been doing for him. As we've grown and we had a chance to kind of get a comfort in life, it made us have to slow down just a little bit right. So now it made us have to see we weren't really, we didn't really know each other like as well as we should have known each other, which means you and me and nessa okay, we didn't know each other as well as we should have known each other. And it started to affect the kj, and not in the negative of like oh, oh, he spazzing out, but when mommy and I can't really have a conversation without some argument, or I'm a deep intellectual brother who a wizard with words, man, I need to know who I'm dealing with. I don't want to just surface it, I need to. I want to know as much about you as I can, because it helps me be the best I can be to you can, because it helps me be the best I can be to you, but if you taking me off into the deep end somewhere else that I'm supposed to be. Well, you, you taking me somewhere.

Speaker 1: 33:21

That is delusion, is not even real. I'm fighting false battles or getting it is. That's kind of where we work just on some immature childish things. Man, I wasn't always the best boyfriend, fiance or husband Right, you know what I'm saying. But I gave that effort to show up for my child, even if I wasn't being the best to her, which had to change the home. And me working as much as I was working, me trying to connect with my woman, me trying to connect with my child, but still having negative people around to deter, like I as a man I'm out number okay. So kj got his mama, his aunties, grandmamas, all like me and ain't shit. And then, but but, and you saying that to him or around him, where you? You got me looking as like I'm the one who's on the leash, I'm being pulled around when it's like, hey, I'm, I think I'm manning up and handling shit, but I'm really a sucker to you right, it's a comedian.

Speaker 2: 34:26

Right now I can't think of his name, but and I'm just gonna steal his line quick this is no shade to the letter, people, but we also see that there is a spike in homosexuality, and a lot of the times that that is the case is because you have little boys and little girls with no dads in the home, so they are mimicking what they see. You know what I'm saying? Again, like, like I said, I ain't homophobic.

Speaker 1: 35:01

That is just a given fact.

Speaker 2: 35:02

We like girls, that like girls like and if you can't associate the two, you just not being honest with yourself. Oh yeah, I'm saying, like you know, when there is no father in the home and the woman may feel like she's not being heard, one of two things is gonna happen she gonna keep running to other men, which is not good for her child, or she gonna switch up. And you can take that how you want it.

Speaker 1: 35:27

I'm saying so, yeah, yeah, it happens, man. So, with me being in the home and nessa not I having, like you know our things, it was one of them like what are we doing? Right, okay, what are we doing? What are we doing, what do we want to do and where are we going? Because it's not just us. We got these children and I was just how can I put it? I want to make sure I say this correctly, not just from my, from my wife, but from women that were around me.

Speaker 1: 36:01

I got a chance, especially like in our age now, man, we late 30s you seeing the spike in people rushing relationships, people rushing to get married, people rushing and I think that's one of them, almost the most as a married person but I've been married nine years to rush to get married and no one is normally women who push to get married, to rush it. That's almost one of the most disgusting things that a woman can do is rush to give up the responsibility of herself for that man to take care of her. Knowing most women push that they're not looking to, they're not looking to be faithful to this one man per se, they're looking for status, because most women don't feel like a woman if they don't got a man. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, especially later on in your life. You, you ain't got nobody knowing you. You got to choose. You to choose the one for real, the look of it, you, you, you got it. So I find that as disgusting.

Speaker 1: 36:57

As a man, knowing that I'm married, knowing what all that comes with that commitment of hey, I'm, I'm rocking with you and this is we gonna do, you just willing to most of them at this age, they willing to just jump on with anybody, which is dangerous.

Speaker 1: 37:10

Anybody is willing to say they can foot the bill of being a husband, being a man, being a father, knowing, if you got children and you just got some randos around your kids, the impact of it like no, no, no, no, no. Or as, being a young man at the time, getting to see, hey, man, this woman loves other men more than the man who she birthed, that loves her unconditionally, that, hey, your mother can love the attention of men and neglecting the unconditional love that her children give her, her son gives her, who is a man as well, who, who can't help, but how he feel about loving her until he catch on, okay, and most of the time when that man catch on. He he ain't got to act a fool, he ain't got to blow the spot up. It's going to come a day. He's going to come a day.

Speaker 2: 37:59

Like well, you, you've been saying this and you've been saying that. You know, like I said, I studied being a father and I saw recently, again on Facebook it was something that went viral and the post said said, before you pass judgment, get your father's side of things. Yeah, for sure, because a lot of people who have been programmed based off of one side of the story and that's all they heard yeah, you know what I'm saying that ain't realistic. You see that more common.

Speaker 1: 38:35

You see that more common than what, that more common than than what you think, man, that mama be lying on daddy because she hurt, or mama be lying on daddy because she got caught up, or because it make her look, it make her look good, and I feel like just uh, and I love women. I want to make sure I put that out there, man so sure, yeah, this is not a we're not bashing.

Speaker 1: 38:54

Today is about this is education for real as I said to my siblings the other day my two sisters, crystal and kiera, shout out to both for them. I said it to them like I apologize to you if I hurt your feelings when I say certain things, but I'm like I gotta say certain things because I'm a man and I only can see things a way of a man.

Speaker 2: 39:50

That you need to know because you're from a man, because you're not a man and you ain't getting it.

Speaker 1: 39:54

You're not getting it, just like you. As a woman, I have to hear what you say, because it's things that you can see and know. That I don't know as a as a man. That you see as a woman, is why we need each other nigga. Don't, don't bash me, don't, don't, don't. It's like because I know how to leave you cold, right but they didn't even what I wanted to do, but it's like I know that ain't built for you.

Speaker 2: 40:15

It's uh, you know, I'm just throwing the history out there. So kind of what you just said is when we was growing up. Have you ever heard of the book men are from mars, women is from venus? Yeah, that's basically kind of what it is like. We are meant to balance each other out, even though we don't understand the importance all the time of one another.

Speaker 1: 40:37

And I'm saying so that's a good way to say it, Good way to look at it, Like we we're supposed to. We ain't supposed to be the same.

Speaker 2: 40:44

Yeah, we ain't supposed to be the same Like you going to look at it this way because of your experiences, your touch. You're going to look at it this way because of your experiences, your touch, your viewpoint, however you want to say it. But as a man, I can guarantee you that I am not going to see it the same, like when Duda fall and bust his knee. I don't be like, oh my God, oh, get your ass up.

Speaker 1: 41:09

Get your ass up, you know what I'm saying like we, not fathers are, fathers are more reluctant to let the children get close to danger than mothers did you feel the fire?

Speaker 2: 41:23

you touched that, you burned your ass, didn't you bet you won't do it again?

Speaker 1: 41:27

tough lesson tough lesson, but I understand, like having two boys man, I understand how Nessa comes to the aid of KJ and Kyro. I want to get him this or do that, or oh, kj playing baseball, I'm going to get him some shoulder pad. I'm going to get him some elbow pad. I'm like, no, you need to learn how to hit. You need to learn how to move, get out of the way. You need to do that. It ain't fashion, babe, it ain't I'm gonna give him some matching cleats and socks.

Speaker 1: 41:55

I'm like he can be the flyest bum on the team okay, he gotta play, don't mean nothing, nothing. So it's two different views but for the benefit of the child, they're getting a scope, they're getting a huge scope of this is how daddy looks at it, this is how mommy looks at, it's how grandma looks at it, granddad looks at it, uncle tay, uncle wood, right tan man. But it's like, hey, what they say, take a village right.

Speaker 2: 42:17

So when you removing the fathers, you get a again. The proof is in the pudding. You end up with a lot of suckers. And we, cleveland, ohio, you know I'm saying for people who watching online what they call them the kid boys. They on the rampage in the juvie system. We got the heartless fell, we got all of that. And again I say that to say this a lot of them, boys and young men, probably never had daddies in the home. So if the blame is on the men, how you end up with that if the men not there. So I say that to say why y'all don't want us to be more involved, more hands-on, and the excuses and the comments are going to say nobody's stopping you from it, really not all of you, not a person may not be a person.

Speaker 1: 43:12

The majority of you are though, yeah, it may not be a person that's stopping you, but as you go through certain litigations, there is a system. Yeah, there is a system. So, as I tell vanessa and we, like I said, I love my wife, man we. I love how we've grown together and we've been able to understand each other. We didn't broke each other, we didn't built each other up back and forth to get us to where we are now, but I feel like that's that's how you get to know the person, not by breaking them I don't want to say that but being there for that person when life hits them Right. Ok, when such situations happen.

Speaker 1: 43:57

And I remember saying this one time to an employee, past employee of ours, when they were they were giving a compliment. I guess like, hey, yes, it's, you know, both of you guys, you're guys together. I'm like you, right, we are together. So it happened to us both, it happened to me both. It happened to us both. I'm hurt too. God damn it. Right, you know I'm saying, but I gotta remain a certain way, just like she may feel she gotta remain a certain way to get things done, man. So, that being said, we've been through things and and graduated through things as where I not just her being a mother of my children and my wife, but I got the utmost respect for and for people who don't value marriage like I value marriage, even though my wife fully know, if I could, I had like two, three wives. I had two, three wives, just just three times more faithful. You know I'm saying, but us having those conversations she's like, man, I don't want to share, you don't want to do none of that stuff. But I also know like what you wanting more from or more women doesn't mean like a negative, but it's more like you need more from me and her having to grow to a certain level, to match me and meet me, knowing if the man is supposed to lead or the man is leading. I mean you got to get that respect in them. Flowers, dude, when you get to see somebody who, who got some direction, who found some, found some direction, and not just entrepreneurial, but in life, like a father who has a goal with his child, I don't want you to end up in jail, right, my daughter. I don't want you to end up with OnlyFans selling ass On the pole, not, and I support OnlyFans. Okay, no comment. And what I mean support is hey, okay, no comment. And what I mean support is hey, everybody gotta work. But people didn't find all kind of jobs now, so I'm not mad at it, but meaning your horizons are bigger than just what's easy, right, you know I'm saying so.

Speaker 1: 45:43

Being a father, being a husband, being a man, it comes with, it comes with a lot man. It is heavy and something I tell vanessa, uh, and freedom speakers man, if you, if you got and I just want to speak to the women for a second if you have a man, a boyfriend, a husband, a father, a grandfather, a son, appreciate them. One most definitely appreciate them, and never and I say this to van man never feel like I am okay. I don't give a fuck, I don't care if I'm smiling, I'm dancing, I'm kicking it. Never feel like I'm okay, because you never know what's going on with somebody. Right? But never feel like I'm okay. Always check up on me, make sure I'm good, make sure you make some time for me. I don't want to have to be acting a fool to get some attention. I want to just pull you by your coattail or I want to be in the in proximity of you and I just give you some googly eyes or something. But we vibe, you, feel me the expectation shouldn't be be.

Speaker 2: 46:52

You know, even we learn as kids. Uh, as you said, permission to speak freely, uh, the value of mother's day is unsubstantial. You know, people go out of their way for their mamas, you know, and got a little your mama, yeah, you got you got a little your daddy mamas, you know, and gotta love your mama, yeah you gotta love your daddy too. Yeah, you know you, we get socks and ties and father's day three weeks later.

Speaker 1: 47:23

Three weeks later and it's father's day, which is one day and then you got mother's day every day, and and then you got Mother's Day. Every day. You celebrate it every day, but it's one day Shark week, get a week.

Speaker 2: 47:35

Yeah, get a week. Not only that, but something I hate. Let me know in the comments. I don't care if you like it, if you a woman telling another woman happy Father's Day. On Father's Day you corny.

Speaker 1: 47:54

Hey, that's disgusting. Get that man his day. Okay, let him have that day One day Let him. Have them cut. He'll be back to being, depending on how the relationship is between you and that man. He back to being whatever else you want him to be tomorrow. Let him get his flowers for this day.

Speaker 2: 48:13

And if you do feel like you do it on your own and you got to say well, I'm the mommy and the daddy. Guess what you chose him.

Speaker 1: 48:21

Yeah, that's some heavy we're going to say it way in there man, that's some heavy accountability man of the woman being able to state like, hey, this is the man that I chose, this is the man I chose, not only to per se, maybe remember children, children happen, yeah, they happen?

Speaker 1: 48:38

sure didn't happen yeah, you know I'm saying so. Children happen, so we're not gonna blame it on that. But it's like, hey, what did this man do to qualify to be able to clap them cheeks, right, okay? Was his jeans talk nice? Was it his car? Did he have a good job? You heard he was holding. What was it? It had to be something and it had to be more. And, knowing we were young, we young.

Speaker 2: 49:01

He ain't just become bummy overnight Exactly. He ain't just become a deadbeat overnight, especially for the ones who have multiples. How you got nine kids and you think he's just being bad to yours. No, you didn't care, you thought you was gonna change him.

Speaker 1: 49:19

Nah, what? No, no, no, you, you, you. You cannot change a person. It's already hard enough to change your damn self, let alone trying to change some saying someone else. And when you get a chance to see trends and patterns and pick up on it, that shit is for real. You know, I'm saying that shit is for real. A person's trends and patterns, their habits of what they do, what they don't do, how they, how they deal with shenanigans, man, right, everybody is down to kick it and hang out. When shit is good, right, when shit is going well, man, everybody's showing up, right.

Speaker 1: 49:51

But when, when? When it's a real life problem that everyone, or most, can at least relate to, some people can't even give you advice, willing to give advice, and sometimes it's not even and I'll say, at least for a man, in most cases nigga, it ain't, I don't, I don't need no materials, man, I know how to get out here and hustle, I know how to build, I know how to find, I know how to get. But sometimes it's like, hey, I just need an ear, I need a, and that's in freedom. Speakers, people who listen, family friends if you know me and you in my circle. You know, I'll just hit you up. Hey, wellness check. Yeah, how you doing what's going on?

Speaker 2: 50:39

what's going on?

Speaker 1: 50:40

I thought about you. No, gay shit, man shit, even though it's pride month, yeah, but it's like all in one, all in one. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 50:47

all in one once again see how they do it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:50

So one of my boys said he's like hey, man, I don't got nothing against gay people at all. Me either. I like girls, that like girls, and some of my great friends who listen to this show, who are teachers, they, they, I respect them and all of that stuff. However, I do know when I'm targeted as a man For sure, or the children are targeted. Some of the TV shows KJ was watching at a time on Disney had a little black boy who was wearing like a girl cardigan pearls on his neck, he had baby doll shoes and like jegging pants.

Speaker 2: 51:18

You will see, I'm like for a little boy. You will see stuff on TV with. Again, it's what they're teaching and programming our children to learn. I don't want to say the name of the show I'm not sure if it was Nickelodeon or Cartoon Network but you'll see. You know a white family, you know. Or you might see you know a white family, you know. Or you might see two mamas. You know what I'm saying. But it's rare that you see a wholesome black family. And then when you do get those shows, they are very short lived. You know so, and I think that's unfortunate.

Speaker 1: 52:03

So I'll say this I'll play devil's advocate for a second. I understand, because it's people who I love who are gay yeah, openly gay. The diversity I understand they gotta see it too. I understand the inclusion to how it's heavy to feel apart, right, okay, so I don't. I don't knock it in any kind of way, shape or form. Okay. Like I said, I love girls who love girls. I just don't care. It's any kind of way, shape or form, okay. Like I said, I love girls who love girls.

Speaker 2: 52:29

I just don't care, it's not my business. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 52:32

What you do, don't make me shit.

Speaker 1: 52:33

Exactly and that's the point that I wanted to bring it to of the world somehow made it okay to talk about certain things that are usually private, right, yeah, your sexuality is usually private and at a certain time, you would teach your child their private is private and what you do in private with people is private.

Speaker 1: 52:55

How did all of a sudden, I get to judge you by how you like to be pleased, right? So I understand that of having people who've come out to me, who've respected me at the same time, who've come out to me and was like I like girls, I want to experience it with you because you never judged me like word dope, but I understand the, the inclusion or this is how you feel. I don't want to judge you or argue with you or how you feel, because that's your truth, because you can't tell me how I feel, especially if you made me feel some kind of way like no bitch, I'm sad. You made me sad, yeah, so I get it. But I don't like the target of hey, man, we, we systematically design something to influence young men to, especially on sexuality, to feel like, hey, this is more easier, more comfortable, especially when they're already outnumbered because they got the feminine energy around them, right especially not.

Speaker 2: 53:49

What is it nine to one nowadays, or something along those lines.

Speaker 1: 53:53

It's a lot, so I have to bring it full circle. I respect people's choices and their lives and their livelihood, and even the strength to share to say, hey, this is what I am, you got my support. But when you take that and you use it to manipulate my son and yeah, well, it looks like me, yeah, you take it to me, like that's warfare, like to me, that's that's warfare. That's you're almost trying to castrate him so he doesn't, trying to castrate him so he doesn't populate. Not that you want him to find pleasure or please be pleased. It's like no, if, if I don't get you to have children, my, my race or my culture or my group get to multiply, and it's always power in numbers.

Speaker 1: 54:45

So if you don't have men like me, men like you, men like von, men like big rp, but men who? I'll be the villain, god damn it. I'll be the villain because this is the standard of what needs to be, and if you don't like it, the world is cold. Right, the world is cold. Go go find your own, just like we are. So the world needs men like us. The world, the children, need men like us. Women need men like us, even though it's it's it's fun to say fuck us, but you still be fucking us and you still need to fuck because, remember, your mama needed to fuck a man too for your raggedy ass to be here.

Speaker 1: 55:33

So, as much as you want to push men to the side and use us like tools and take us off the shelf when you can, you get upset when other groups form, such as the passport bros if I wasn't married, I'd have been a passport bro no, but meaning like hey, you can't, don't push, don't be mad at that man being a hetero man, right that you don't want to deal with him or he. And then I'll say that into this you don't want to deal with him, you don't want to fuck with him. You because of, because he's a black man, but you'll go deal with other denominations of black. Oh, I got this haitian, I got this jamaican, I got this, I got that, but it's like you got your own man, like american, whatever the label you want to put them, but you don't want him, you don't want no nine to five man and that's probably one of the most disgusting things to me right now was like hold on, you don't want.

Speaker 1: 56:25

No, yeah, a provider is a provider, yeah, and I and I and remember, play devil's advocate to kevin samuels for a second. Kevin samuels did a great thing by giving men a voice, but I also feel like he became targeted when he was able to give empower people. Okay, he empowered men, most definitely black men, to be able to speak up and have a standard and not just cry in the dark, right, or not know like men. Stay for the children too, man, okay, so it's men, stay for the children too. You feel like I'm just here because it's like no, niggas, be like I don't want to. I want my kids being a broken home. So remember he. But he gave men a voice to be able to speak and be able to be like hey, I'm saying what most of them not strong enough to say, yeah, everybody not going to go get milk.

Speaker 2: 57:17

Yeah, you know what I'm saying. I've been put into a lot of tumultuous situations because I chose my children. You know what I'm saying, and I think they would even agree that both of the mothers of my children would say that they knew that was the only real way to get to me. You know what I'm saying. So, as I'm doing my best to be that father, they would do things triggering things. You know what I'm saying. So, as I'm doing my best to be that father, they would do things triggering things. You know what I'm saying and I'm no way, shape or form innocent, but I do know that when it came to my kids, it wouldn't be something that I would do to their mothers, because that's their moms Right, right, right, you know what I'm saying I done.

Speaker 2: 58:09

had the police called on me, I done had I done got jumped. I done been physically assaulted. You know what? I'm saying Before, and you know I done had to hold my own. All that. You know what I'm saying and I done had the stigma of oh they afraid. What you afraid of, if I ain't never put my hands on you before, then putting it into the air of the atmosphere, is because you know, you knew that that would probably hold some weight.

Speaker 2: 58:40

Yes, we see we see that on tv every day. You know I'm saying like again I don't have a side, but we seeing it right now with Haley Bailey and DDG. You know what I'm saying, yeah yeah, Like we don't know what's going on in they home, but as soon as she said, he the world ready to chew him a new one. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. And I'm like why? Because she the mama.

Speaker 1: 59:05

So it's easy for y'all to believe that without no proof and everybody ready to be okay with it remember we recently just shared earlier, like hey, man, him being, as a black man, regardless of we always wrong, yeah, you always wrong, but how you're gonna be viewed is either whatever you doing. When he, when they was together, it was great, he was cool, it was cool to have locks and you talk rapping. You got an actress woman who's saying now he dangerous, oh, he didn't cut his hair, he made, he's streaming, he doing anything. They trying to look to be negative when it's like as a father, I get to see man, that nigga, lonely man he's trying to occupy his time when that woman is pawing in that child because it it, it favors her, her for sure.

Speaker 2: 59:51

When it was, they were happily together. It was oh, that's a great dad. You know relationship goal yeah, you know I'm saying he was taking the back seat when she was little mermaid.

Speaker 2: 1:00:04

You know I'm saying yeah when she was going on tour with her sister. You know what I'm saying. Like that is what the goal should be. You know, if he got to take the, as men got to take the back seat I'm not saying we always gonna be the the breadwinner, I'm not saying that. But the narrative switched on that man so quick. You know what I'm saying. Like it was, oh, he's doing what he's he's supposed to do. But then, as soon as she came out and was like, oh yeah, it's time to go now, this man, that was just a great dad who was uploading videos of whatever little nigga name oh, he don't need to be around his daddy.

Speaker 1: 1:00:49

They make him like ambitious man, and that's what makes me sad Like the world can change that narrative and make a loving, caring father be hated by his own people.

Speaker 2: 1:01:05

Overnight Without knowing Nothing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:01:09

Nothing, man. Own people overnight without knowing nothing. Yeah, nothing, man. And you wonder why suicide rate for men is like 53. Most men don't even make it to 50 years old. They take themselves out of here like this. It's, it's a serious, serious thing, man. It's a serious thing and to know it's designed for you to fail.

Speaker 1: 1:01:30

There's only few who get victories, who get some wins, right, but it's designed for you to still look bad, as the man Looked at as like you didn't try hard enough, you didn't do enough, you didn't, and it's like, really, really, what else you want me to do? There is, you know what system there is for me out here in the world that helps me? Jail. There is no national section. Eight for men None, there is no national. Hey, I'm going to give the man a job, right, society? Right, there is no. That is most men supposed to be republican. Get it by your bootstraps. The sweat of your brow is like, hey, you even take it to a place at a time where it's like, hey, I was a black man, I couldn't even get employed exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

You'd rather see me on the street. So you know I'm not a hundred percent sure when it kicked off, but I know it was during the time period of in between Dom and the twins. So Ohio has something called I think you probably are familiar with it it's called the bubble gum law, the double dip act or whatever. So when Dominic was younger, you know, obviously, as the economy has changed one benefit is because I've always been current on his child support is because they don't have a plethora of caseworkers. They've pretty much left me alone. You know what I'm saying. But imagine paying what I pay for him when minimum wage was five, 25.

Speaker 1: 1:03:08

So I minimum wage was $5.25.

Speaker 2: 1:03:10

You know what I'm saying. So it was days where I had to worry about if I'm going to eat, because I can't go downtown and say, hey, can I get food stamps too? You know what I'm saying. Like, but you taking from me and then you saying that it's based off of gross and net, gotta be the custodial, you know. So, uh, being in those positions before it was definitely, definitely, definitely tough.

Speaker 2: 1:03:39

So the the the double dick at double dip act pretty much is saying that they change things where if a man has multiple streams of income, they can only touch into it maybe once a year. So, bringing that a little bit further up to speed, so let's say they're taxing your main source income job. But then I turn around and I say well, damn, now I don't got enough to provide for me and go out here and I get a part-time job. They aren't supposed to group the income together now, they're just only supposed to base it off of one. You know I'm saying, but the encouragement of that was because, man, we're really out here being forced to choose between life or death, which then associates under the table jobs. Like people don't understand that people aren't finessing. Just to finesse is because they ain't got no choice, you know what I'm saying, when you only think of it again from one perspective.

Speaker 2: 1:04:47

I know, I know some men out here who rather pay out of pocket to the child support office instead of having a taxable, you know, a job, because that's what they got to do to survive, you know so yeah, man.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

So tell me this when it comes to just being a father now and the resources that are out there, can you tell the people the resources that you've used or taken part of, that kind of put you at the place you are now?

Speaker 2: 1:05:28

The last two years I have been in a full-blown custody dispute, which ended this past September with me being given full custody of my children Congratulations. So during this time period, like I said, bringing it back to what I mentioned before I have seen both sides of what a man has to go through in terms of juvenile slash, civil matters, um being awarded custody of my children. Um, as of last year, there aren't a lot of programs out there that say dads can benefit from. So I don't know if you guys can see my shirt, but cowhugger county has one, uh, it's called the fatherhood initiative. Um, another one that they have is called the passages program, and there are, I'm sure, a lot of other ones, but those are two light of the major two.

Speaker 2: 1:06:32

Uh, where we are, so the they teach you, um, co-parenting skills. They teach you how to be a better father. They try to bridge that gap in terms of employment. They'll have jobs, fairs and things of that nature, but where the snag isag is is, again, we still have to be able to survive. So they'll introduce you to people, which is a great, great, great, great, great asset to have a voice instead of just giving me a number or rushing me off the phone and then from there, they connected me to the people that were able to step in to help me, connected me to the people that were able to step in to help me, um, my lawyers, natalie, natalie Thomas and Katera Kennedy. You guys have uh done miraculous things for me, um, and I appreciate you guys. So there's, there's. You guys just shout out for sure, um, if you guys want to contact them, for any father that might be wanting to get shared parenting or full custody of your, of your children, um, let me give me one second.

Speaker 1: 1:07:56

Uh shout out to them for being able to just step in and have those resources for you, man, uh I met them through aranton Road Legal Ministry.

Speaker 2: 1:08:10

You guys can Google it, I don't want to hold up too much of the time, just Google that number or Fatherhood Initiative or the Passages Program, and these are located in Cleveland. Yeah, they're in Cleveland, ohio. I also want to talk about the brunching here that the Cuyahoga County Fatherhood initiative does. It's always the Friday before father's day, so it's next week. Um, if you guys get a chance, register for that. It puts everybody in one place because I know how tough it is being passed around between the child support it's only one. You. You can't be at the child support building, juvenile court job and family services at work in bed and a dad all at once. I encourage that.

Speaker 2: 1:08:59

If you guys can sign up for this free brunching, do it, because it puts a lot of the supervisors, a lot of the shot callers, a lot of the people who can give you those answers that you may need to questions in one room. If they can't talk to you, I'm more than willing to be of help. You know you guys can look me up on Facebook. My first name is Terry Allen, so it's T-E-R-R-Y-A-L-L-E-N. Nichols. You can find me on Facebook. Just shoot me an inbox man and tell me a little bit about yourself, what it is that you're trying to accomplish.

Speaker 2: 1:09:41

And I'm just going to give you the real, because when you go down to those places, every situation is circumstantial and they really don't want you to win anyway. So they're not going to give you all of the information that you really need, or they may not even know. You know, I'm saying because of how the game is set up, you know, is is sometimes who you know, not what you know that can help you with that. So, yeah, like I definitely will give you more resources, but in terms of the things that I have been able to get, I ain't gonna lie to you.

Speaker 2: 1:10:16

It wasn't nothing, you know. I'm saying it was. It was people that saw the hurt in my eyes, they saw the pain, they saw the, dare I say, the shortcomings that I was being given all the way down to man having to catch the bus with my kids or not having a vehicle, because, again, I was going to make sure that those three had. You know, and I'm not saying that there are not women out here who go through it, I'm saying that you guys, matter we don't matter.

Speaker 2: 1:10:51

That's what today is. We're not gonna do. It's not a pissing contest. Today is about giving the men who deserve the credit the credit. It's about giving the men who want the resources and the ability to get you know, because I want that to be what's important.

Speaker 1: 1:11:10

Fathers matter, man, so so, man, let me ask you this, bringing, bringing it full circle, man If there's one thing that you could change in our society pertaining to men and how men are viewed, what would it be?

Speaker 2: 1:11:27

We definitely have to be better. I will not say that that is not true. But with our generation, like I said, dealing with this for the past 17, 18 years, there is a lack of understanding. There is fear because we're seeing the court system intervene and favor children being with their moms, and that does not necessarily mean that it's the better situation. I'll say.

Speaker 2: 1:11:58

In the past decade, I've seen more fathers become courageous in terms of fighting the legal battle. Courageous in terms of fighting the legal battle. It's gonna take time, it's gonna cost money and you gotta definitely uh produce the evidence and the paperwork you know. So I'm not gonna tell you that it's gonna be a easy uphill battle. But as long as we continue to change the narrative of that, we don't want things to change uh, they will have no choice but to respect our voice in terms of being looked at or viewed as equals.

Speaker 2: 1:12:39

Um, if I had to say one or two things first would be um, for I'll just put it out there because it's true, if I think everybody should get dna tests at birth, you know, I'm saying that it it's a lot of things in court that could go the route that ties up the court system that may not even have to be the case. You know, um, that's first and foremost. Um. I also believe that some of the laws are a little prehistoric. It's tough because I can't control, if we're separated, what you do or where you live, you know. But I think that something should be taken into consideration, because if it's about the child, sometimes I can't be the best father I can be If you are an hour away, two hours away. You know what I'm saying. So just more compassion is what I would like to see. Change for sure. Um, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 1: 1:13:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, man, being educated on it is healthy, like you, being able to give people your story. What you've been through, what you're going through, the steps that you've learned, is probably so much further than what most people have done. Knowing that, like you stated, a lot have given up, bro. Yeah, knowing that, like you stated, a lot have given up yeah, they're gonna give up a lot if you don't if you don't know?

Speaker 2: 1:14:13

you know you're just gonna assume. Why would I want to fight? If you don't, how can you learn? Because you know, um, I love all of my children equally. They bring out different things in me.

Speaker 2: 1:14:28

And what you just said about you and kj's relationship, I tell dom the same thing, like I'm definitely tougher on him. But I tell him, the reason I'm tougher on you is because you haven't had me in the home, you, you you're with me on the weekend, you know I'm saying, but you seeing things from a woman's perspective every day, you know, um, so I make sure that I crack down on him, not to just be a firm disciplinarian, but because I have to instill in him, uh, a male perspective. And what I used to tell him 50 hours a week, um, and that is not something that I always have wanted, you know. But I also tell him you don't understand the sacrifices that it took for me to get the 50 hours. You know, like having to work third shift jobs and missing out on sleep, you know, to make sure that I can attend his events. It was what mattered to me. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:15:37

The twins they had me at home from birth up until their mother and I separated and I made sure that I stayed in close proximity. So then that way I can still see them every you know, every day if I could, but most definitely every weekend, until I ended up getting custody of them. Um, so with dion, I'm sure he, he's a little boy, you know, he's six I'm sure he thinks that I'm tough on him, but dom tells him all the time like shit, you know, like you got it.

Speaker 2: 1:16:16

You don't even know, you know he, uh, dion caught you in a season yeah, in a better place, emotionally seasoned as a dad, yeah, you know, like he uh more in tune with myself, my emotions, uh, all of the above, um, and then you know, so my twins are one boy and one girl. Um, so drew has taught me the importance of being a a girl dad. To like how I discipline her is different, like you know, like I talk to her, you know what I'm saying. Where I went, dion, I gotta put hands on him.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

You know what I'm saying, but you know I'm saying where I went, dion, I gotta put hands on him, you know, like, uh, it having them in my home, even though their mother and I are separated, has taught me to be a little bit softer with the mother of my children. It's taught me to expect more in my future of dating. It has taught me that my words are just as powerful as my hands can be. So when I sit down and talk to her, I can tell that I'm teaching her how to be loved correctly by a man. You know, how to love a man is very important to me.

Speaker 2: 1:17:56

So I I feel like, uh, a lot of people didn't have that because they didn't have the dads in the home. So you know, it could be something simple. Like you, I'm teaching her how to cook already, right now, or like she'd be like well, dad, why do I got to do this? It's not because I'm pushing when, should I say like sexual chores? No, like I'm making sure that when I'm in the kitchen, she in the kitchen. You know, I'm saying like you know, or you know, just to be on her business. So, having my kids, like I said, I'm seeing the differences in my involvement and how I interact with them as well.

Speaker 1: 1:18:39

So I guess that's a dope thing, man. So for you to be the father in the home, which is almost unheard of, that is the single dad.

Speaker 2: 1:18:49

Yeah, I know no help, put that out there. Zero, no names.

Speaker 1: 1:18:57

But you know me, so you know her yeah, I find it dope, man, single dad, you measuring up, you hitting the mark of you got a boy, you got two boys and a girl. You, you're making all adjustments that you need to you. You smile through it, for you smile through it. Um, though, you are true about what you feel, like, hey, this isn't light, this isn't. It's a heavy burden for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:19:29

Yeah, yeah, but the way that you give man, you give people hope, you give men hope of hey, man brody really stepped in and cared about his children enough that somebody saw fit for him to for them to be with him. You know what I'm saying and you thankful for you, you appreciative of it. And it was something that you don't really get to see or you don't get to hear men be like hey, I care about my children too. I care about them just as much. It should never be a rival of who loves the child more, right, you know what I'm saying. That's an unhealthy place to be. You know what I'm saying. And recently this might be a couple months ago man kj had asked vanessa and I out of the blue, like, are you guys getting divorced? I'm like, no, I mean, what made you say that? Because if you guys do, I'm gonna like live with mom during the week and I come with you the weekend. I'm like why?

Speaker 1: 1:20:23

but damn son, I would have been like why did this come from right, but it was he's around like two or three of his friends parents that got divorced. Yeah, you know I'm saying so. That's a common thing. I think one of his best friends their parents got divorced. His dad moved to florida.

Speaker 1: 1:20:39

The other guy they got divorced um when his friends in school, they, their parents, got a divorce. So it's like it's more common than what you think. Uh, but because we are married and he just he sees divorce on tv, right, you know the kids, he hear the music. So it's like, hey, if you guys don't get a divorce, I'm, I get two christmases, so I get like what is one of them? Bro, you will really be fucking hurt.

Speaker 2: 1:21:04

I wouldn't hear yeah, and, and you know, like I am a product of that. You know and we'll you know. I'll go a little bit more in depth to stuff people who don't even know unless you really, really, really, really really know me what I'm getting ready to say you don't know. You know what I'm saying because my mom did a great job, even though she and I really didn't have the best relationship. What my mom taught me was she never tried to be both mommy and daddy. You know, my mom taught me how to be a man's man. She taught me what I should do for women, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 2: 1:21:48

But my parents went through a divorce at a young age and, um, I saw the mental, mental toll that it took because me and my father were inseparable, like we did everything together, like I'm talking about. He was my hero, before I even knew what the word meant. You know what I'm saying. If I could have been in his skin, that was how close we would have been. Like I'm talking about everything he did I wanted to do. And when my parents started getting divorced to me, it was because I was young. My parents got divorced when I was nine, or whatever. I didn't really understand it because that's how I was looking at it Like it's no big deal. You know I'm still going to get to see daddy, but my father committed suicide two weeks after my 10th birthday. So in the course of a year and a half he went from having me in the home every day. You know I'm sure there was other mental health issues that you know he was dealing with, but to take his, you know I got older sister but I was yeah, you know what I'm saying like we were inseparable.

Speaker 2: 1:23:12

Now that I'm older, I look back at those memories and I saw a man that was broken because he lost the only thing that mattered to him. You know what I'm saying. So to not be able to tuck me in that night or pop up at you know, like my mom didn't stop him from being a dad, but it was just different. You know like my mom didn't stop him from being a dad, but it was just different. You know I'm saying you can be there and not be. Yeah, you know I'm saying so. When we have to be in a place of understanding that our kids are just expecting to go with mom, I don't think that nobody understands the depression that comes with it. You know, I'm saying like that's tough.

Speaker 1: 1:23:57

When kj said that, that led for vanessa and I to have a conversation, though it was drenched in humor, right, hypothetical. Yeah, yeah, it's drenched in a lot of humor. She knows that I'm one of those fathers. She, she's like you're not going to just let me leave Hell. No, she's like nigga, I know you not and I'm like you got. You got you got. I'm calling Tim Misny. Bitch, I'm calling Tim Misny, I'm making a face. But it was like I love my children and I love being a father man, you have anything else?

Speaker 1: 1:24:33

Yeah, it's like I'll pay you to stay away. I'll pay your ass to stay the fuck away. But we here, you know what I'm saying. But it was one of them like, hey, you can't make me feel like you're doing me a favor taking my children away, or you can't make me feel like I'm being punished by having my children with me. Right, you know what I'm saying. I've seen some of my friends who got children and them and they mother the child, mother, not together, but she use it as like a flex, like i'ma have him get the baby, he gonna do this and do that, and then the father be like bring me my fucking child, bitch, I ain't, you ain't like you ain't you ain't flexing on me, wanting to be a part.

Speaker 2: 1:25:11

Now, dom's mom does do that and I hate it. You know what I'm saying. And it's good cop, bad cop. But because I have to be more assertive with him, it definitely is hey, if you don't do what I'm telling you to do, I'm going to take you to your daddy. What? Why can't it just be man? I'm going to take you to your daddy. What? Why can't it just be man? I'm gonna take you to your daddy. You know I'm saying because I obviously can't do it.

Speaker 2: 1:25:40

You know, I'm saying and she has maybe some intentional and not always intentional victimized herself because it's easier to do you know I'm saying and and you have to have a cast of yeah, he ain't yeah, so if you have a victim, for those who are in tune with their reading or literature, that means you have to have an antagonist. So what you basically is telling them is if I'm the hero, what is daddy?

Speaker 1: 1:26:13

yeah, yeah, like that, hey, and that's and that's probably some subconscious level of how children probably process it mommy here, get mommy here, daddy not here, or when he do pop up, it isn't, you know, you mad at him, or just the, the shenanigans that I've got to see and hear from, like my peers, my bros, my circle in the circle of, in these circle of men who all are fathers and they that want to be fathers I don't know I was about to lie. I do know some bad dads oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:26:53

Oh then y'all don't skate.

Speaker 2: 1:26:54

I know some bad fucking dads, I don't I don't hang out, man, I call, I call deadbeat dads out every chance that I get.

Speaker 1: 1:27:04

Yeah I don't, I don't, man, I don't. I used to have compassion, I don't have none. Okay, okay, we at the same place now. I used to have compassion because I didn't know stories, I didn't know, like, hey man, he's done a third. But I also know nobody gives a fuck about me, right, and how I have to tend to my children and things like that. So if I don't get a pass and I choose to step into it, this person is purposely avoiding and using the circumstances. Yeah, yeah, yeah we can have honest dialogue.

Speaker 2: 1:27:44

I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but you're not going to give me excuses of why you just not.

Speaker 1: 1:27:51

Yeah, why you not going to give me excuses of why you just not get, why you not? You can't, you can't. You can tell me hey, bro, I'm, I'm financially fucked up, she, she got a problem. You, I'm willing to listen, but you can't tell me, as, as we said earlier, bringing it full circle. You and her don't got that Right. That ain't you in that child. Okay, as me find recently finding my side of the front, my father's side of the family, not me finding my sister and my mother found my father's side of the family online. Keep in mind, nigga, I've been asking where my daddy at for 38 years all right, I've been asking where he at for 38 years.

Speaker 1: 1:28:34

My mother and I didn't have the best relationship, though I love her and I know my mother just learned learning my mother's history. My mother was born with a broken heart, so I I learned to understand and forgive the the. This child wasn't potentially born through love. Oh yeah, that's the thing, you know. That's a real thing. Like, this child wasn't born through love. This child, like children get here, okay, people get here. Yeah, I'm a I'm a.

Speaker 2: 1:29:04

I'm a I'm not going to say a circumstantial product of that. I'll say I'm. I was raised uh, more so with a business mindset. You know I'm saying my, my parents were both successful and wanted to get out of their product of environment. You know, I'm saying so to them it was elite, breed elite, but they were not compatible. So my sister and I missed out on the things that were probably the equivalent of you know what I'm saying. Like I was, I was taught how to balance a checkbook, yeah, and I was taught a lot of skills. Business. I was not taught love, you know exactly. So that's why I agree with you. I'm learning that with my children, my partners. You know what I'm saying. I've been told, told. You know, like I'm not emotional, I love who I love, you know I'm saying, but my interaction, like you know, with my friends is different than my woman.

Speaker 2: 1:30:22

You know I'm saying for sure so, like I've been told, like man, you cold at times. No, I'm not cold, I'm just meticulous to certain things, like I'm like, and that's what I'm just trying to be better at. The one thing that you can never say is I'm not going to handle my business, you know, in terms of what is necessary for this home.

Speaker 1: 1:30:43

Yeah, yeah yeah, for the children, for mothers, for even the hands that that care for the kids you know. So, like I said, well, the relationship with my mother and I didn't really have, uh, the best, though I know my mother loved me and that we both was learning at the same time, just like me and kj. So a lot of understanding and forgiveness comes in of childhood trauma, circumstance and situation. As a full-on adult and I get to see what our relationship is now. It makes me value the relationship with my child more and say, hey, I don't want my child to ever feel like they don't want to talk to their parent, that they don't want to be around their parent, that they don't want to be around their parent. That when they got a chance to get strong and get a voice, that now they're using it to express to me how they feel through their pain, because they never had a chance to be able to say have that space to say yeah, dad, this is how I feel. Yeah, mom, this is how I feel as I'm learning with my own child and as I even teach vanessa from things that I've learned and still learning like my mother was great at teaching us a lot of things.

Speaker 1: 1:31:59

Man, I, I'm the genius that I am because I was my mother's an educator, right, all right. So it's, we had books and food in the fucking house. Okay, books and food. This is before the internet. Go read an encyclopedia, nigga that was that was mama.

Speaker 1: 1:32:14

Okay, so I am what I am on a lot of attributes, of skills, because of what my mother instilled in me. My mother raised her sons but loved her daughters, okay. So this is why my brother and I are as domestic as we are, like we can balance a checkbook, go to a grocery store, cook, clean wash, do laundry and go put a hard hat on, build you a bridge, whatever you need, right? My sisters look to be loved by a man who has some of these attributes that their brothers have. You know what I'm saying? So this is what comes with the protectiveness of them. But then it comes with the, the protectiveness of them, but then the, the standard that that man has of like, hey, I can handle a lot. I need you to match me. Okay, I don't need you to come in per se cleaning and cooking for me, which is great, but I know how to do that. You have to give more, okay, so bringing it, you know, full circle, man, one of the things that my uncle has said to me rip my uncle, ed edrick brooks, edrick harold brooks, yeah, big ed man. Shout out to him, he, him, and my aunt terry shout out to my auntie, terry, lady t they had came. They came over one day out of the blue from a trip and they stayed on vacation at a time. They were just they was. They stayed on flights and runways. But my aunt called me, like hey, baby, y'all at home. We like, yeah, we're here. So they like we're gonna come on through. We got some gifts for you. I'm like all right, bet.

Speaker 1: 1:33:48

My uncle, my aunt came and trying to get emotional, but my uncle, my uncle and my aunt came. I'm trying not to get emotional, but my uncle and my aunt came and my aunt gave Vanessa this really nice purse that she, vanessa, like she don't even wear it, she don't even put it in the bag or nothing. Now she like she just it's just like a souvenir. And she was like you know, I gave you that, I wanted you to have that. My uncle and aunt got me a nice watch. They know I'm a watch person. So they gave me a really nice watch and was like you know, I wanted you to have it. My uncle just giving me that.

Speaker 1: 1:34:18

That man talk though my aunt. You know she, my aunt, always been my biggest fan. Monty terrier always been my biggest fan. Anything I've ever had or done. She's always showed up, her and my uncle. They came early and stayed late right and they helped out with whatever was needed. They bought liquor, food, chicken wings, whatever, but they was like always, yeah, count on them, and they always was there. I missed the shit out that man, all right. That being said, my uncle was giving vanessa praise and was like man, you know, I love what you and my nephew doing and how y'all got things going. You don't really see that too young or whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:34:57

My auntie was like all right, harold what you want me to be like Vanessa and he was like no, I just love how she treat my nephew. Yeah, you know, like I just love how she treat him. And I know, as a man and this was his words, like I know as a man, and this was his words, like I know, as a man it's something that had to be said or something had to be done or something with them for that man to want to emerge as a man, right, to want to be a husband, to want to bring it out of it. Yeah, yeah, you gotta show something, right, you know? So him seeing that and being like, hey, I him being the only married man in the family at that time, yeah, the people was married, you know, here and there, whatever, but speaking from a male perspective who married 30 some years, right, he wanted to be there. Even in his death, he's still taking care of my aunt and his kids. So to me, that's the, that's the man. To me, that's the, that's the man. That's the pinnacle of man I got a chance to see until I met my father's side of the family, meeting them and talking to them, and my father passed away at 53 years old in 2013.

Speaker 1: 1:36:07

Oh, so you ain't never meet him. I never will. Oh, wow, and that breaks my heart. I'm grieving that. All right, I never will. Oh, wow, and that breaks my heart. Yeah, I'm grieving that. All right, that's messed up. I'm grieving that, okay. I lost my uncle, which was the best man I've ever known, and then my father, which was a man I never got the chance to get to meet, right, you know what I'm saying? I never got the chance to hang out. I remember K played baseball, so we pitching. He was like man you ever play pitch with your dad.

Speaker 2: 1:36:36

I'm a nigga. Why you hitting me on my soft spot?

Speaker 1: 1:36:37

did you play catch?

Speaker 1: 1:36:38

I'm like you're gonna catch these hands, small things like that to him that he like I'm just playing catch with my dad, all right, this is something that sits with me, like I never play catch with my dad, right? So, but meeting my father's side of the family and I haven't met him physically yet, we going down there, uh, 4th of july where they at yazoo city, mississippi, oh, okay, country boy, yeah, I'm hip, yeah, I'm hip, yep. So when I talk to mama tracy, shout out to mama tracy, the whole king family down in yazoo city, mississippi, I love y'all, respect y'all. Uh, when I talked to her on the phone, neither one of her, neither one of us, can have a conversation without crying. She look at me and be like boy. We was, we was looking for you. Your daddy and I was up there. 2013 was looking for you.

Speaker 1: 1:37:26

Brandy, which is my baby sister, she just graduated. She wanted to invite you to to her homecoming prom or graduated to, but she was having events at the school. So she would be like, hey, man, you look just like that man.

Speaker 2: 1:37:40

You look, just like him.

Speaker 1: 1:37:42

And she just got to have her moment Right and me having pictures of him. When I get to like, if you see me next to my mother, you're like oh of him.

Speaker 2: 1:37:51

When I get to like if you see me next to my mother, you're like oh you look like your mama, but if you see me next to my daddy, you're like nigga, that's your daddy. You got the Johnson sideburns.

Speaker 1: 1:38:00

Yeah, I got the burners, but oh, y'all got the pork chops. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. So when I get to talk to that side of the family, they all knew about me. So that comforts me. It wasn't like I was a secret. It wasn't like my dad didn't know or like abandoned me. It was and this is me filling in the blanks for myself, because I've asked my mother for clarity like to have a little adult conversation, like I've lived long enough to see my own shit come full circle, right, but don't mentally try to manipulate and play me as like I'm some child and I don't know how this life thing goes. Right, like, just keep it real, be strong enough to have that conversation with me, or I'm left to assume. So when I talk to my father's side of the family and I talked to my siblings, it's like they all knew who I am. They all longed for this relationship with me. It was like dad knew who you were, we knew who you were. They even put me in his obituary. Ok, so that was a heavy thing to me too to be like.

Speaker 1: 1:39:16

I ain't always had the best relationships with my siblings that I have with my mother and even what would alienate me at times. But I had a whole other side of the family who was longing to be close to me, even now, even now, like, hey, bro, okay, we, can we come up there? I saw your house on instagram. Can I come up there? Can I come live with y'all? Can I come hang out or nigga, come down here. We got the space.

Speaker 1: 1:39:30

Mama like, oh, trying to give me anything of my dad's right, anything, anything. She's like I got these motorcycles, you want a motorcycle, I got one of them. My sisters be like hey, I love you, bro, we, we missed you. We know you now that we know you bro, we talking damn near every day. And it's six other siblings, so it's a whole nother side of family, cousins. They down in the country, country farms, pigs, shotgun, all that. But it's like hey, that's, and I told Nessa I would tell Nessa when I Permission to speak freely. Yeah, as I've learned to Allow her to be A safe space for me. Mm-hmm, always wasn't For sure.

Speaker 2: 1:40:17

That's the truth For sure. Like y'all gotta Gather on that one. If y'all ain't, y'all say it. But that don't mean that don't mean you are Right. A man ain't, we are Bred to be this way, but a lot of the time. But that don't mean that don't mean you are right.

Speaker 1: 1:40:34

A man ain't, we are bred to be this way, but a lot of the time is from what we see, what we feel. So that's deep, yeah. So I needed to allow her to be my safe space because for a long time she wasn't and I would deal with things the way that I dealt with them and I would coddle myself. Usually, with women not having that great relationship with my mother, I would always seek out women and I would seek out aunties like the older women. The older women tend to always kind of play favoritism to me or were more attracted to me just due to and I believe it truly was just the attributes my mother taught me I'm at work and I'm doing things and I'm handling things, or how I carry myself or conduct myself. I would always intimidate or at least what I believe I intimidated women that were my age because couldn't couldn't too often or too much play a game without me catching on early, checking shit. And when I was wild, I was wild. But women who had a little bit more class and a little more tact, which were a little bit older than me, those women knew how to approach me, they knew how to talk to me, they knew how to yeah, they could see something and was like hey, this nigga need nurturing right, more than you scamming them. Because if you just learn it as a man, you, that woman, nurture you or or talk to you in a way, not just seductively, not just I'm trying to manipulate you, but really like, hey, you really give a fuck about my being like, you really care about me and it, or, and not just that, you like me, right, you genuinely like me, not for for what I can do for you or anything like that, but just like, hey, man, I like you because you're funny, or like you because you're entertained and like because you're smart, I like you because you, whatever that. Those were the way that those older women would lure me in. They would lure me in through intelligence, through skill, through cooking, through they had, they were established, they could, they could hold their own in the conversation with women my age, I would intimidate them. So me being able to like, know, like, hey, when I would be hurt and in pain, that's what I would do. I would. I just show up to a spa, I just be there. So eventually somebody will talk to me. I'm going to talk to somebody. I know how to make friends. I went to school on that day where they taught how to make friends. So I know how to make friends, I know how to interject into a conversation on how to be the show and I know how to just sit the fuck back.

Speaker 1: 1:43:15

Be putting myself in tempting situations didn't help the relationship. It was the easy part of just going to go lay up somewhere else, feeling that temporary satisfaction, that temporary high, and then when I come down it the problem is still there, or it's. It makes a recurring thing. So me having to express to her like, seriously, severely, this is, this is a certain way you have to treat me or I, or to be cold, right, certain way you gotta treat me. It's a certain way you gotta talk to me and because I love myself and I love myself way more than you will ever love me, me expressing that to her like I don't need you to love me.

Speaker 1: 1:43:52

I think with most men, love is probably fourth or fifth on the list of like requirements. Respect is, damn sure, probably number one for most men. Right, respect me. I say for me, respect me, let's be cooperative. Okay, like, like, let's be cooperative. We don't have to be at odds. If I say no, it should make me an enemy, just like for you, it should make me an enemy. Uh, be cooperative. We don't have to be at odds If I say no, it should make me an enemy, just like you should make me an enemy.

Speaker 2: 1:44:15

So understanding people don't really understand that. You know I've done my best to sharpen my communication skills because cooperation is definitely important. You know, no matter if you are seeing things different or not, you know like that shouldn't be the end goal, end all be all. You should not blow shit up, especially if you love me.

Speaker 1: 1:44:40

Yeah, but so we got it. We got to cooperate, man, and I want to be valued. You know what I'm saying. I want to be valued and just express in that tour her. It's like man I and it's a quote that I use it was like most women know they supposed to have a man, but do they know how to have a man? Keep one, do you know how? Do you know how to have one? Most women can obtain? You can go get a man for sure, like we, not most men.

Speaker 1: 1:45:09

We ain't trying to be mysterious with you, like that shit, that with me. Oh yeah, figure me out, bitch, come on, you playing Men ain't that mysterious. It's really a straightforward, direct kind of thing. I don't got time to be looping back and forth because shit is urgent to me on what it is I need to do or what's on my plate to do, and if I need your assistance, I need your cooperation, I need your understanding, I need your respect, man, I need your, your commitment to me. Then then, then, then, then maybe nigga open up and you are, you could love a nigga, all right, but until then, if you ain't respecting me, we can't communicate. We ain't got like no understanding, we don't got no value on things. No, some goals. You something to do, you, you? You default yourself, at least to me, of being what I feel like I am and knowing what I am. You default yourself to entertainment.

Speaker 2: 1:46:08

You default yourself to just something to do, something to play with something to have around when I'm bored.

Speaker 1: 1:46:12

You know you default to entertainment. You can be some people would live in entertainment, ain't gotta, you know, tell people can live in there. But to me it's like no, I'm a deep intellectual brother who's a wizard with words. I need connection. So I needed finessa to be my safe space, even though she at a time she wasn't. But I thank her for I thank her. I'll make sure I say this correctly. I thank her for thinking more of herself to match me and meet me places. Okay, because she could have just took it and was like I went to easier road travel and dealt with a nigga who required less than thinking more of herself. Like hey, and she know, her husband it's like that nigga could have been laid up was one of his auntie friends at that hospital. One of them big booty bras in the scrubs that be jazzy.

Speaker 1: 1:47:09

She come to work with jury on one of them. He could have been doing that because I know that's how he used to soothe himself, but he comes to me, so me allowing that when she was working, remember, because I had some resentment like, yeah, bitch, you wasn't, you weren't trying to fuck with me when I was trying to do this, bitch, what the fuck? Now you want to lick my wounds and shit, I'm mad I'm sad and mad right now.

Speaker 2: 1:47:33

I'll put that in words, I am upset.

Speaker 1: 1:47:36

Now you want to tend to me. What the fuck was you doing every other day? Well, now you want to work on some shit. When I'm done or I'm broken, I'm fucked up like what were we supposed to be doing every day until here? You can't make me so. It was one of them like we're just as important.

Speaker 2: 1:47:51

Yeah, that's what it boils down.

Speaker 1: 1:47:53

So her having to see that and jeopardize our relationship because bra was done.

Speaker 2: 1:48:00

I listen out of the. I left them both, yeah. Repeat that, no matter what you heard. I left them both, yeah, because I had to do what was beneficial for me. You know what I'm saying. And sometimes we hurt just as much trying to make it work.

Speaker 1: 1:48:20

Trying to make it work, trying to like I'm being played as a fool and I pride myself on making good decisions and it was like none of these decisions were good. None of these decisions led us to victory. It just led us to more turmoil. And then now you want to work on it when I'm broken and I'm finished and I'm done. It's just almost a spit in the face of like what, what the fuck were you doing every day prior? So us coming from that point in that place? It took time and it's taking time.

Speaker 1: 1:48:57

Ok for me to be like I trust you enough to let you into what I deal with emotionally and not be sling back in my face, not to be spit on me, smeared on me, because I emotionally let you in. I got to, usually most of the time, be be the guidance counselor or be the counselor or the therapist for most people. But when I need a chance to be able to vent, I'm not trying to get all that information to the world. I'm not trying to give it to anybody that can compromise me, the world, I'm not trying to give it to anybody that can compromise me. It's usually bottlenecked into one or a few, because I don't talk to her about certain husband shit. I talk to y'all talking my bro, I talk to man. Shit right to get different perspective, a most definite different perspective.

Speaker 1: 1:49:44

But when I do feel a certain, when I want hey, hey, real shit, hey, nigga, when I want to be held, I ain't calling my bros. I'm sorry, all right, I want my woman to hug up on me, I want to feel that warmth from there. But I need to feel safe and comfortable that that shit is the shit and she was there for me. So, growing to where we are now, where I can tell it like man, it's loud inside my head. It's loud inside my head today, very loud. I need, I'm gonna take the day off right and let me just kick back. I mean, or she'll come and see me, just she'll be like you're hyper, non-active, verbal today and she's like you're like you're.

Speaker 1: 1:50:32

You're not usually nigga, you got a lot to say. You ain't saying shit in hours and I'm like I ain't got it. I ain't got it today or she'll she'll come in.

Speaker 1: 1:50:41

You know you good, but it it took, bro. It took me breaking. It took me breaking to see for her to which this is my piecing of she never said it, but this is how I read it in her response of how she comes to my aid of things, her seeing me, me being broken and I'm, and I'm broken, bro, I'm fucked her because prior she was like nigga, I nigga. You so mentally tough, you so strong, you don't let shit bother you. I'm like. It ain't like it didn't happen, though it ain't like I still didn't absorb it. It still wasn't like I dealt what. I went through it. I just dealt with it. I went through it. I just dealt with it a different manner. But I'm at a place now where it's like the cup is running over. Not just want good, but bad too. I need a detox. I need X, y and Z. I need this.

Speaker 1: 1:51:45

But when I couldn't come to her at the time it was, I found other outlets. I'm finding hobbies and shit to her. At the time it was, I found other outlets. I'm finding hobbies and shit. I'm I'm going to the gun range, I'm shooting shit. I'm being destructive as fuck. You know what I'm saying I'm making beats, I started a podcast, but I'm like nigga, I'm trying to soothe myself in other ways compared to how I used to, because it was to me, it was healthy, but it wasn't healthy for us, right? So if I need that from you I don't want to be rationed and it was and it's not a sexual, but it would be like it's an intimate I need to feel close to you, I need to feel attached to you, I feel need to feel connected to you more than just our children on a uh mental and uh emotional yeah, especially me expressing like I take good fucking care of her so much that it causes jealousy amongst her friends or my friends or family or other women.

Speaker 1: 1:52:50

It's like how does she get a kid, what do? What do you do to make him do the things he do for you?

Speaker 2: 1:52:59

yeah, and then you know like, uh, so I was telling a young woman last night that even I'm single as a bill, you know, um, even I'm single as a bill, you know I always try to. I guess it's just my mentality. It could be the Libra in me. I try to look at things from a balanced perspective left, right, front, back, whatever you want to call it and I don't blame my felt relationships on anyone. I take the good and the bad from it though, you know. So then that way, I know what not to do. You know self accountability is important, self reflection is important, but also being able to say, hey, I saw how what that did to me, yeah, you know. So I hear you know being able to say that you feel or sense the jealousy from you guys's thriving relationship compared to what other people feel like they deserve is, yeah, if they not putting the work in, they going to keep ending up with the same or less than yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:54:15

So I am single because I strive to be better. You know I'm not like I was. You feel me. Yeah, it be a lot of.

Speaker 1: 1:54:26

Yeah, we used to be already together, bro, so I get it. I say this real quick. You see the change. Yeah, as a nostalgic moment, bro, we was out here early Early Off the porch Outside and off the porch, as they call it. We outside and off the porch man.

Speaker 2: 1:54:46

we was doing stuff, 13, 14.

Speaker 1: 1:54:50

Man, and then everybody started getting cars 15, 16. Man, everybody started getting cars 15, 16. Man, I learned Not everybody everywhere Listen.

Speaker 2: 1:54:56

I learned how to catch the bus going to get some buns. I learned how to drive with his cousin getting some buns I learned how to get some buns, bro.

Speaker 1: 1:55:08

You had the red.

Speaker 2: 1:55:09

Saturn Dog. So Big Ed used to be on the nights and Terry used to go. We used to take the Buick, the black. Buick or the blue one, or the black one or the gold van. Yeah, you did have the gold van the Pontiac joint. I learned how to drive Before Ed did and we're like let's get the keys. I remember.

Speaker 1: 1:55:28

But getting to see, getting to see, getting to see young, wild, ambitious men, we were become domesticated, seasoned. I think it was Kierre, my sister Kierre. One time was like man it's strange as shit seeing you and Keontae as dads, seeing y'all as five. That that shit crazy she's like we grow up too.

Speaker 1: 1:55:57

You know what I'm saying like yeah, so I said this real quick. This is coming to mind when you say grow up, shout out to mama moan, the simone, as a vanessa's mother, my mother-in-law and I don't even use the in-law term, but if I say mama now I gotta break down. So many mamas, yeah, but mama moan is what I call her. We was out here in the lounge. We'll be broadcasting from today. Um, she had asked like why do men grow up so slow? I'm like because you, while heifers, move so fast. I'm like when you young, you out here fast, acting a fool. My granny du, we talk, we chop it a lot now on some adult side of things, where she had a place where it's like who gonna whoop her? She 80 something years old, who?

Speaker 2: 1:56:38

gonna whoop her? Who gonna spank? Her?

Speaker 1: 1:56:40

But she like, hey, just speaking truth to test the time of things. She like, hey, man, I'm. She like nigga. I had my first child at 17,. Pregnant at 16. She like I like the older men I'm 13, 14, outside doing stuff. I'm like ain't nothing new up under the sun, right, yeah, ain't nothing new up under the sun. But she's like this is it's been happening, right, you know what I'm saying. So she's like this is just what it is, star, kind of hitting them 30s or whatever. She got so many kids and she got you know these men. And it's like, hey, man, I gotta, I gotta find some balance in myself. Somebody got to make an honest woman out of me.

Speaker 2: 1:57:20

Yeah, you know what I'm saying, just be just, the moment of transparency is. I'm not saying that every guy's a good guy, that's. That's not what this is. And again, I'm not fellas, we have to be better. But sometimes patience is a virtue, you know. And again, the self-accountability sometimes that man is what you need and you ain't ready, you know. Hey, sometimes you may think more of yourself than what you really are, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:57:55

I'm saying like so I say that that's when you say that that's a beautiful thing. I say that because, like you said, some men or some women, when hit with accountability, run, run and they find something else easier. But someone being able to meet the challenge, like I said with vanessa, her being able to meet the challenge and with me, her being able to express to me things it wasn't just one-sided, like I'm just flawless, no, but me being able to express to her like this is what I need, and her being able to think so highly of herself she matches me okay at the same time of her expressing to me like, hey, this is what I need from you. I need you to be a little softer with me, I need you to talk to me just in a different tone. Okay, I respond better to you. Hey, sweet, thank, I'll buy you a fish, y'allall.

Speaker 2: 1:58:50

Then bitch, get the fuck out why you ain't cook nothing. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 1:58:55

So I understand the art of it, right, I understand the art of it. I understand the motion, I understand we surfing with this. I understand that, hey, my interaction can either amplify what you feel or change it. You could be in a bad mood, but me coming to say, hey, what's going on, baby, I just wanted to come check up on you and it's. I was just so stressed out, thinking that you said something to me, but both of us being in that space of time, so she'd come out here to the lounge where I chill at and come and just peek out. Hey, you good, just wanted to see how you are. I know you told me you know check on you. You ain't, are you okay?

Speaker 2: 1:59:43

yeah, I don't know. I wish you know. I again, as my evolution continues to happen, I vocalize more what I need. But you know, definitely, as somebody that pours into so many cups, you know as a brother, as a son, as a nephew, you know as a friend, as a nephew, you know as a friend, like it's not much being reciprocated back into that cup. You know. So what I require more of is learning my love language, which is the quality time and affirmation. You know. So I spend that time with my children but, like you said, that softer side of me knows now that another reason that those failed relationships didn't work is because it was being taken for granted. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 2:00:45

So, yeah, that's important man to know that's important man to know, yeah, so today's episode is brought to you by Therapeutic Relations Healthcare Services LLC. If you are looking for a job, you can apply at TherapeuticRHScom, and today's show was sponsored by Ben Boston Media Company and by Lounge 87. I have been your host, chief Ali, and I got tan man terry allen nichols in here today as we're talking about and wrapping up what it is to be a father, fatherhood initiative. Uh, fathers matter, but really making the show really, really, really centered today around men and men in general.

Speaker 1: 2:01:30

Yeah, okay, if you like anything we talked about or have any questions and things you would love for us to talk about, leave in the comment section a few things below, just so that we know. Please like and subscribe. You can follow me on Facebook at Ken Juan Authentic Johnson. You can follow me at permission, the number two underscore, speak freely podcast on IG and you can follow me at Ben Boston that's BNBOSSN on IG as well. Anything else you want to leave to people, man, before we sign out?

Speaker 2: 2:02:02

Oh, no, man. Again, just happy Father's Day to all the great fathers out there. Man, it's a laundry list to you guys that I wish I could shout out for the young fathers or the fathers who just want more. Just keep going, man, don't let anything beat you. It's the lasting impression in words that I would like to leave with you. Again, if you need that encouragement, if you need that support, if you just need to know how to navigate the best way, we can Notice I said we, because we have to change the narrative Just reach out to me, man, and we can pray on it, we can just talk about it and whatever you need, man, I'm there for you Fathers matter.

Speaker 1: 2:02:50

Fathers most definitely matter. Hey man, I'm there for you. Fathers matter, Fathers most definitely matter. Hey man, thank you. Thank you for being able to come on the show. So, man, info giving your guidance and, as we in every show, we end out with a prayer and we end with permission to speak freely, so you care to end us in prayer For sure.

Speaker 2: 2:03:10

Dear Heavenly Father, just thank you for another day. Thank you for the growth and development, thank you for the opportunity to learn and speak freely. Thank you for family, thank you for friends, ones still here that are, you know, encouraging us to be the best man that we can be. Thank you for our loved ones that have moved on, who have set the standard. Thank you for just an opportunity to continue to just be who we are supposed to be, and I ask you for the guidance that you continue to bless me with In pray, amen amen, all right, brother.

Speaker 1: 2:03:54

Thank you all for tuning in to this episode of permission to speak freely.